Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:05:07
So, should we start taking away the ASNs of every not-perfectly-competent network?

Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:05:33
I think there will be many organisations who get quite grumpy

Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 12:06:40
There is a difference between "not-perfectly-competent" and "I want to learn by using global resources and affecting the whole world with my learning curve"

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:07:42
The effect is tiny though.

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:08:42
My FIB isn't full of people with an AS and a single /24. It's full of big companies deaggregating their /16s

Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:09:31
I'm not understanding the assumption there: why do you think people who actually go through the hassle of getting numbered ressources, haven't already learnt on private networks first

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:09:36
But neither is something I really worry about too much, my FIB has plenty of space

Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 12:10:24
Why would they need a public ASN if they can learn on a private network? What exactly do you learn from that that you can't learn with a private ASN?

Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:10:49
@Alex Le Heux: Yes. I asked the same speaker yesterday if he had *quantitative* data on how much of his whinging is caused by “personal ASes” and he avoided the question then as well

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:11:57
@sebastian Why would they not need one if they think they do?

ASNs are not a scarce resource. They're also not making the sky falling. Why add more barriers to entry than are strictly needed?

Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:12:52
Ah, question came in too lat

Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 12:13:12
My customers are full of people who ask for expensive trainings - for BGP for example, but none of them has any clue about operating in the DFZ afterwards.... just say'ing, not that I'm not happy about the constant money for me but.... ;-)

Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 12:14:14
Sorry @nico .. I already had to close the queue in the room due to the time.

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:14:17
Rule 1 of the DFZ is You Can't Trust Any Of Your Peers.

So it's actually not very relevant if they're competent, as long as you are :)

Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 12:14:27

Nico Braud-Santoni - 2024-05-22 12:20:04
@Erik Bais: It's fine, it's just... frustrating that we are spending so much time because some academic learnt people can just apply for an ASN, and decided this has to be an issue, apparently without checking what proportion of the purported problems (if any) they cause

Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 12:27:33
@Alex Barriers to entry to what? I find it strange that people feel they need an ASN to get into the networking field. Nothing in the field requires or compels you to get an ASN and connect to the global BGP network to learn. Even though ASNs are not a scarce resource, we still increase FIB size, route churn and instability by networks that could as well use private ASNs and connect privately to other people that want to learn.

If you want to get into the networking field: great. I mentored a lot of people going into that field, many became great network engineers and none (0) had their own ASN.

Maria Stafyla - 2024-05-22 12:28:48
This session has now ended. The next session is the RIPE NCC Services Working Group and it will start at 14:00. More info on the RIPE 88 meeting plan:

Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 12:29:07
@Sebastian I come at this from the opposite direction:

Someone wants to operate BGP, for whatever reason, so why put artificial barriers in their way?

I've operated large networks for decades and a few kids with an ASN has not once been an issue.